I wanted to bring forth my argument about Justim's gender, given that while I was away it appears that Justim had gained a gender that had not been stated by DSP at all, I want the community to read what I've said here (you can find this in Justim's comments section) because while I do respect all of you, I can't disregard the fact that there is false informtion on Justim's wikia, given that there has not been once a confirmation from DSP themselves of them being male, especially when people assume because Justim was referred to as brother in translations (even though kyoudai also means siblings, it's just a combination of younger brother + older brother) that it automatically means that they are male. By that argument alone that just because Justim was referred to as 'brother' means they're male, that is also saying Etihw, who has referred to themselves as Kcalb's wife, is female, when canonically they are not. Thus, I want to discuss this and bring this to light.
Let me clarify myself, since it seems I've been misintrepreted:
When I said that Justim has been represented as male, I was referring to the translations regarding his and Vicers' familial status as brothers. Not that Justim is male because he lacks feminine body parts. I edit the wiki frequently, so I'm well aware that there are many charactersthatlookliketheyfall into some definitions of gender, but are either opposite of what is initially thought of, they present as both male and female ,or they lack gender entirely.
Yes, I know that Deep-Sea Prisoner has depicted Etihw with female body parts. But, as Deep-Sea Prisoner's said that Etihw is agender, they are agender. This has been a fact consistently translated. Besides, as far as I know, Deep-Sea Prisoner has never, ever used the term "wife" when it comes to Etihw and Kcalb's relationship. Perhaps it was mentioned in TGG, but as far as I know the only people that to have used the term "wife" in regards to Kcalb and Etihw are fans.
The term "brothers" however, has been used by two separate translators.
You have mentioned that "kyoudai" is an ambiguous word. As far as I know, using online dictionaries and other media, you're right. All of the sources I've used have given mixed translations(older brother+younger sister, older sister+younger brother). However...
^ This here seems to support that Justim is male. This is a translation for a picture found in Log 70 of the Sunahama, translating information on the "devils". Specifically, Vicers' entry states this:
"Even though he’s not a devil「His face looks like one of a devil」.
He was taken to the devil meeting for that reason.Has a refreshing face, while his brother has a cuter one.*It seems he was fighting against his younger brother…."
Now, several translators have already translated that Justim is Vicers' younger sibling, at the very least. While not translated into very proper English, the meaning of this translator is still clear: this translation specifically states that Justim is Vicers' younger brother.
Now, I might be wrong, but it appears that the character for "little brother"(弟) appears twice in the last two sentences, generally correspond to where the words "brother" and "little brother" are in the English translation.
However, I don't know proper Japanese. For all I know, the text could mean something else differently or I've missed some of the Japanese nuances. I also can't say that I know everything about Justim. My information base regarding him is constructed out of bits and pieces.
I have to say this: we're all here, tryin' to get the wiki into the best shape it can possibly be. So, don't be afraid to point out my fallacies.
Okay, allow me to reply to every section of your argument from top to bottom so that you can understand what I was putting across because it wasn't clear as I thought it would be; however I will be disregarding your first point because that has nothing to do with the argument, not once in my argument have I targetted you specifically as a person on the wikia, I fully understand what you're getting across so don't worry.
For your second paragraph, this is incorrect. If I'm correct your go-to translator is malacti? Then allow me to link you to a translation where Etihw had referred to themselves as a 'wife.' http://malacti.tumblr.com/post/156942604901/tl-for-the-other-character-profiles Even if it is an AU, that doesn't disregard the fact that they have indeed referred to themselves as 'wife' before. So your second paragraphs is void, sorry.
Onto your third point in all this, mixed with a split of paragraphs. Let me put it this way, what I meant was that I am fully aware that Justim was referred to as little brother this is because while there is a supposed term for 'siblings' (plural - kyoudai 兄弟) there is no gender neutral term for 'sibling' (singular - none. ); henceforth the default is 'little brother' since in japanese terminology there is no 'sibling' (singular term of siblings in English terminology) therefore there is only sister or brother. This is why I'm against stating that Justim is male, since there is no japanese words that DSP has access to that refers to Justim as gender neutral. This is where you are false, and this is where I correct you.
There is no gender neutral term for sibling in japanese, thus 'brother' is used.
Therefore, given that DSP has no access to a gender neutral term for Justim when referring to them as a sibling to Vicers, we cannot assume that Justim is male when it is not explicitly stated by DSP themselves.
I will be completely alright if DSP were to say they were; however because they have not I cannot tolerate assumptions over fact.
All of the points you've raised are fair. Indeed, there are subtleties of the Japanese language I can't understand but you do. So, I apologize; this is an argument that I shouldn't be arguing, as I can't fully grasp all facets of it.
I've noticed that you've already edited the gender for Justim, so I'll add a little bit in the trivia and change the categorizations.
Would you mind finding the source that explicitly states Justim is agender? I've just checked Lee's infodump, which says that Justim's gender is non-existent(but, since he's Lee... he's caused this wiki of trouble with his facts. Looking at you, Chishibuki and every trivia fact for names!) You and Satanikku have mentioned several times that I'm not really sure where it is.
Actually, Lee isn't incorrect about Chishibuki being Yagi's wife, in a deleted art, Yagi is shown to be with Chishibuki (but not on friendly terms). As for the source as to where DSP has stated it before I'll have to look through the twitter? Since that source is as old as when The Gray Garden came out, if not older. I don't want to upload the art of Yagi and Chishibuki here; however there is art of Yagi and Chishibuki as well as Jork that I have. This is as much as I will give. Though I can't be certain where to find the source, as far as I'm aware from older members of the DSP community as well as The Gray Garden wikia, both have stated that DSP is uncertain about Justim's gender themselves, not male or female, their gender is uncertain. As stated by DSP themselves. Forgive me however, on my part for stating that DSP has stated they were agender, though this could bring up whether or not Justim should have a 'Gender' column until it is further confirmed by DSP, since the source is in their Twitter I believe. Yet, given that DSP has deleted content before, I can't say for sure I will find the source myself.
This is from [Gray Garden] wikia, they have an older version of Justim's information, if my memory is correct Justim's wikia used to be identical to the information on The Gray Garden wikia. I'll have to check the editing archives.
This is from [Gray Garden] wikia, they have an older version of Justim's information, if my memory is correct Justim's wikia used to be identical to the information on The Gray Garden wikia. I'll have to check the editing archives.
Yes, I was right. if you look at the revision history of Justim's page you will find on February 11, 2015 the information of DSP being uncertain as to what gender Justim is can be found there in this revision, the source of this I believe remains unknown, in the archives of DSP's Twitter, or part of DSP's deleted/old website; I doubt that this would be put there without a source.
This is from [Gray Garden] wikia, they have an older version of Justim's information, if my memory is correct Justim's wikia used to be identical to the information on The Gray Garden wikia. I'll have to check the editing archives.
Yes, I was right. if you look at the revision history of Justim's page you will find on February 11, 2015 the information of DSP being uncertain as to what gender Justim is can be found there in this revision, the source of this I believe remains unknown, in the archives of DSP's Twitter, or part of DSP's deleted/old website; I doubt that this would be put there without a source.
The statement still leaves a lot to be desired. There's no source cited and I'd like to avoid any scenario where we have to use the TGG wiki as a source in itself. Plus, the information is old. Two years old. The statement itself mentions DSP playing hot potato with Justim's gender. This inevitably makes the information... well, more obsolete than Obsolete Dream. (ba dum tss)
So, instead of just blindly griping about for an answer using old information - I've tweeted DSP this:
Hopefully they'll respond, that's unfortunately written incorrectly. This will be a better translation, Google Translate is not a trustworthy translator.
" どのような性別は Justim ですか。"
(What gender/sex is Justim?)
Is a better sentence, given your sentence translates to
'I'm sorry, submarine prisoner has a question! Justme is a man? (I've used Google translate'